<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: 6 reasons why the &quot;HTML5 vs. Flash&quot; debate is idiotic</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 04:07:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: gonchuki</title>
		<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/comment-page-1/#comment-487</link>
		<dc:creator>gonchuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gonchuki.com/?p=77#comment-487</guid>
		<description>@Vinoth
Javascript is single threaded too, and Web Workers have no access to DOM elements (like Canvas for example) so there&#039;s no way to do multi-threaded rich animations with HTML5 either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Vinoth<br />
Javascript is single threaded too, and Web Workers have no access to <acronym title="Document Object Model">DOM</acronym> elements (like Canvas for example) so there&#039;s no way to do multi-threaded rich animations with HTML5 either.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/comment-page-1/#comment-486</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gonchuki.com/?p=77#comment-486</guid>
		<description>These are very sensible points. I love debates like this. It&#039;s like political pundits arguing over who is the better presidential candidate: there is no influence on the outcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are very sensible points. I love debates like this. It&#039;s like political pundits arguing over who is the better presidential candidate: there is no influence on the outcome.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Vinoth</title>
		<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/comment-page-1/#comment-484</link>
		<dc:creator>Vinoth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gonchuki.com/?p=77#comment-484</guid>
		<description>During multiple request flash player animation will cry, due to it&#039;s single threaded :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During multiple request flash player animation will cry, due to it&#039;s single threaded :(</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gonchuki</title>
		<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/comment-page-1/#comment-482</link>
		<dc:creator>gonchuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 20:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gonchuki.com/?p=77#comment-482</guid>
		<description>@Steven
that&#039;s one way to view it, the other way is that I don&#039;t care about diplomacy when making a point. If you check my answers I only replied in the same tone that the original comment was made.

@Andrew
definitely a nice article and the benchmark results are exactly what I was trying to explain across many of my points. no issues on self-promotion on my blog as long as the articles are relevant to the topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steven<br />
that&#039;s one way to view it, the other way is that I don&#039;t care about diplomacy when making a point. If you check my answers I only replied in the same tone that the original comment was made.</p>
<p>@Andrew<br />
definitely a nice article and the benchmark results are exactly what I was trying to explain across many of my points. no issues on self-promotion on my blog as long as the articles are relevant to the topic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Begin</title>
		<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/comment-page-1/#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Begin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gonchuki.com/?p=77#comment-481</guid>
		<description>AGREED. 

The focus should be more on building fast, interactive media that works everywhere, and less on platform. End users don&#039;t care what it&#039;s built in, just that it works. 

This is a (transparency: my) blog entry RE: web-based charting in Flash vs. HTML5. We found that even based on side-by-side performance, there is no single winner between the two. It depends on platform, browser, and even chart complexity. 
http://www.zingchart.com/blog/2010/04/07/zingchart-plots-to-end-the-war-between-html5-and-flash-in-web-based-charting/ 

A call for developers to code stuff that &quot;just plain works.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AGREED. </p>
<p>The focus should be more on building fast, interactive media that works everywhere, and less on platform. End users don&#039;t care what it&#039;s built in, just that it works. </p>
<p>This is a (transparency: my) blog entry RE: web-based charting in Flash vs. HTML5. We found that even based on side-by-side performance, there is no single winner between the two. It depends on platform, browser, and even chart complexity.<br />
<a href="http://www.zingchart.com/blog/2010/04/07/zingchart-plots-to-end-the-war-between-html5-and-flash-in-web-based-charting/" rel="nofollow">http://www.zingchart.com/blog/2010/04/07/zingchart-plots-to-end-the-war-between-html5-and-flash-in-web-based-charting/</a> </p>
<p>A call for developers to code stuff that &#034;just plain works.&#034;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steven Anacker</title>
		<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/comment-page-1/#comment-480</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Anacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gonchuki.com/?p=77#comment-480</guid>
		<description>Your information and argument shows you know what you&#039;re talking about. Your superior, snarky attitude when commenting to others shows you have a lot of growing up to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your information and argument shows you know what you&#039;re talking about. Your superior, snarky attitude when commenting to others shows you have a lot of growing up to do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gonchuki</title>
		<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/comment-page-1/#comment-475</link>
		<dc:creator>gonchuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gonchuki.com/?p=77#comment-475</guid>
		<description>@James:
The Flash plugin is proprietary, however the specs for running .swf content are open http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/
What you are confusing here is the interpreter (Flash Player) with the file format (SWF), as the SWF files *are* platform agnostic just like your Java JAR files, and as stated previously anyone can write their own Flash Player like you could write your own Java VM (a nice and ironic example is the &quot;Gordon&quot; Javascript+SVG Flash Player http://github.com/tobeytailor/gordon ). Even HTML needs an interpreter to work (your browser).

Open-ness and closed-ness are usually confused and indistinguishable by the naked eye, your big argument about HTML5 being an open format can quickly become an argument on your iPhone having a proprietary version of Safari to run it, or Opera being closed-source.

As for the rest, I already stated that misusing Flash is the biggest issue, maybe you are following the discussion with some preconceptions about why I&#039;m stating certain things and that leads you to wrong conclusions. Don&#039;t jump the gun, we all want better web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@James:<br />
The Flash plugin is proprietary, however the specs for running .swf content are open <a href="http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/" rel="nofollow">http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/</a><br />
What you are confusing here is the interpreter (Flash Player) with the file format (SWF), as the SWF files *are* platform agnostic just like your Java JAR files, and as stated previously anyone can write their own Flash Player like you could write your own Java <acronym title="Virtual Machine">VM</acronym> (a nice and ironic example is the &#034;Gordon&#034; Javascript+<acronym title="Scalable Vector Graphics">SVG</acronym> Flash Player <a href="http://github.com/tobeytailor/gordon" rel="nofollow">http://github.com/tobeytailor/gordon</a> ). Even <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> needs an interpreter to work (your browser).</p>
<p>Open-ness and closed-ness are usually confused and indistinguishable by the naked eye, your big argument about HTML5 being an open format can quickly become an argument on your iPhone having a proprietary version of Safari to run it, or Opera being closed-source.</p>
<p>As for the rest, I already stated that misusing Flash is the biggest issue, maybe you are following the discussion with some preconceptions about why I&#039;m stating certain things and that leads you to wrong conclusions. Don&#039;t jump the gun, we all want better web.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Vivian</title>
		<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/comment-page-1/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>James Vivian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gonchuki.com/?p=77#comment-472</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re missing a touch of nuance here... HTML5 should not be used as a rallying cry against Flash, and likewise Flash developers shouldn&#039;t ignore the rise of standards-based rich media interactivity.  This conversation would be much more productive if it encompassed Flash&#039;s mis/over-application on the web and how we can use improvements in web-standards technologies to make the web as a whole a more open, rich, *and* accessible information platform as a whole.

Flash is not a standard, nor is it an attempt at one.  It is a proprietary plug-in run on top of the web stack that happens to play nice with http and xml.

Flash is not open. Flash is not platform-agnostic.  A 3rd party cannot come along and write their own flash player based on any sort of public specification. There is no way for an entity like Google or an individual developer to apply their expertise to a competing closed and compiled stack in an effort to improve performance or cross-platform compatibility.

That said, you&#039;re spot on that Flash *is* good for animation and rich media and it enables richer interaction when used well. Unfortunately, Flash as a platform was designed from the ground up to be a walled garden.  

Is it getting better?  Yes. 

Was it designed to support and run standards-based markup, presentation, and behavior in an open and accessible manner?  I&#039;d be hard-pressed to find a qualified professional who could answer with anything but a No.

It&#039;s a simple fact that the lion&#039;s share of the content on the web that is imprisoned inside flash&#039;s walls today could succeed at the same goals with much better accessibility and semantic relevance in html/css/js.

As a standards-based web developer, I have developed a successful SEO-friendly semantic flash platform as well as implemented flash video platforms.  The advanced effects and animations can be put to tastefully good use, but I have also seen the conflation of web video and flash result nightmarish app architecture, simply because the back-end developers made the assumption that video would always be served within flash.

I see the HTML5/Flash debate as much larger than the narrow scope of delivering standards-based video content.  It&#039;s a movement toward a more semantic and open interactivity layer... and one that Adobe should embrace instead of try to overshadow.

Yes, flash is good for some things... but it should be used as a last resort.  Anything along the lines of navigation, text, or image content that is walled up inside flash without a standards-based fallback is just simply *doing it wrong*.  If you think otherwise, take a long hard look at why you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#039;re missing a touch of nuance here&#8230; HTML5 should not be used as a rallying cry against Flash, and likewise Flash developers shouldn&#039;t ignore the rise of standards-based rich media interactivity.  This conversation would be much more productive if it encompassed Flash&#039;s mis/over-application on the web and how we can use improvements in web-standards technologies to make the web as a whole a more open, rich, *and* accessible information platform as a whole.</p>
<p>Flash is not a standard, nor is it an attempt at one.  It is a proprietary plug-in run on top of the web stack that happens to play nice with <acronym title="HyperText Transfer Protocol">HTTP</acronym> and <acronym title="eXtensible Markup Language">XML</acronym>.</p>
<p>Flash is not open. Flash is not platform-agnostic.  A 3rd party cannot come along and write their own flash player based on any sort of public specification. There is no way for an entity like Google or an individual developer to apply their expertise to a competing closed and compiled stack in an effort to improve performance or cross-platform compatibility.</p>
<p>That said, you&#039;re spot on that Flash *is* good for animation and rich media and it enables richer interaction when used well. Unfortunately, Flash as a platform was designed from the ground up to be a walled garden.  </p>
<p>Is it getting better?  Yes. </p>
<p>Was it designed to support and run standards-based markup, presentation, and behavior in an open and accessible manner?  I&#039;d be hard-pressed to find a qualified professional who could answer with anything but a No.</p>
<p>It&#039;s a simple fact that the lion&#039;s share of the content on the web that is imprisoned inside flash&#039;s walls today could succeed at the same goals with much better accessibility and semantic relevance in <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym>/css/js.</p>
<p>As a standards-based web developer, I have developed a successful SEO-friendly semantic flash platform as well as implemented flash video platforms.  The advanced effects and animations can be put to tastefully good use, but I have also seen the conflation of web video and flash result nightmarish app architecture, simply because the back-end developers made the assumption that video would always be served within flash.</p>
<p>I see the HTML5/Flash debate as much larger than the narrow scope of delivering standards-based video content.  It&#039;s a movement toward a more semantic and open interactivity layer&#8230; and one that Adobe should embrace instead of try to overshadow.</p>
<p>Yes, flash is good for some things&#8230; but it should be used as a last resort.  Anything along the lines of navigation, text, or image content that is walled up inside flash without a standards-based fallback is just simply *doing it wrong*.  If you think otherwise, take a long hard look at why you do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gonchuki</title>
		<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/comment-page-1/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>gonchuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gonchuki.com/?p=77#comment-470</guid>
		<description>@Raphael
clearly you don&#039;t have a clue about who is who and what is what in the software field. Flash Player 10.1 is still in beta and it&#039;s planned for a final release sometime later in H1 2010 (that is, devs have at least another 2 months to continue working on it).

Second thing, Flash had at least 2 major completely different dev teams behind it, one was from Macromedia, the other is from Adobe. It&#039;s also suspected by many (me included) that there were at least 3 teams in the &quot;Adobe era&quot;, first being the transition team, second being the CS4 team and currently a more talented team that is clearly doing things right.

Also, what you call a &quot;crappy job&quot; is currently part of every Firefox browser out there, as much of the TraceMonkey code is based on the Tamarin code open-sourced by Adobe in 2006 (Tamarin is the AS3 VM on Flash Player).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Raphael<br />
clearly you don&#039;t have a clue about who is who and what is what in the software field. Flash Player 10.1 is still in beta and it&#039;s planned for a final release sometime later in H1 2010 (that is, devs have at least another 2 months to continue working on it).</p>
<p>Second thing, Flash had at least 2 major completely different dev teams behind it, one was from Macromedia, the other is from Adobe. It&#039;s also suspected by many (me included) that there were at least 3 teams in the &#034;Adobe era&#034;, first being the transition team, second being the CS4 team and currently a more talented team that is clearly doing things right.</p>
<p>Also, what you call a &#034;crappy job&#034; is currently part of every Firefox browser out there, as much of the TraceMonkey code is based on the Tamarin code open-sourced by Adobe in 2006 (Tamarin is the AS3 <acronym title="Virtual Machine">VM</acronym> on Flash Player).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/comment-page-1/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 14:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gonchuki.com/?p=77#comment-469</guid>
		<description>Nice writeup, very informative!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice writeup, very informative!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

